Interview with Milica Vuckovic

Each of us suffers from a childhood ‘disease’ which we need to face and overcome, as soon as possible – an interview with Milica Vuckovic

“The Fatal Outcome of Athletic Injuries” (orig. Smrtni ishod atletskih povreda; Booka, 2021) is most often described as a novel about violence against women, and this is the angle from which we have started this interview. Yet, its author, Milica Vuckovic, emphasizes that she strongly disagrees.

For YUBblioteka, Milica Vuckovic, an awarded novelist and a painter with a PhD degree in applied arts, talks about what inspired the creation of Eva’s and Viktor’s story, and how the story was influenced by personal experience, but also with the need to talk more about its psychological and societal aspects.

“The Fatal Outcome of Athletic Injuries” hides many layers of meaning and tackles the topic of gender roles system in Serbia today. In some previous interviews you have stated that the relationship between Eva and Viktor is not one-way, but that Eva also plays her own role in the described “toxic” relationship. To what extent is the system of rigid gender roles still present in Serbia and how would you describe it?

First, rigid gender roles and violence in partner relationships are not phenomenon present in Serbia only, on the contrary. Of course, such things are more present in poorer countries where women are less likely to be educated, and thus to be financially independent, which, I guess, is one of the main reasons for agreeing to be dependent in a relationship. Our folklore is that a woman is good if she is “obedient”, but I always emphasize that we must not rule out pathology that goes in the opposite direction – women who abuse their male partners. That is why I keep saying that this book is not about violence against women, but the pathological structures of the personality, about upbringing, about how pathologies arise and how they manifest. In my novel, both Eva and Viktor are, in a way, deviant personalities who participate in that pathology.

Would it be true to say that the roots of pathological personality traits for both Eva and Viktor are laying in the lack of education, parents’ support, financial independence.., or is there something else worth mentioning? Are there any differences between the pathology causes for Eva and Viktor, can they be reduced to the same for both characters?

I would not like to talk about this in details, primarily because I am not a psychologist. In principle, there are some similarities in the personality structures of my characters, but they cannot be reduced to the same, except the fact that they are both from the same social class, which is important. Eva is a character who has interiorized the feeling of an unwanted child, that she “hindered her mother in realizing her wishes and ambitions”. She always feels redundant, and it’s as if she’s to blame for it. She lives with a sense of guilt, and with such opinion of herself, victimization is her destiny. Viktor, on the other hand, is an abused child, who did not have when and how to learn healthy behavior patterns. For him the notion of love is related to the notion of suffering – before love he always arranges to be punished, so that love comes as a reward. Therefore, and you will understand me better now when I say this, I refuse to label this novel a novel about violence against women, because all characters suffer in their own way. Furthermore, everyone is a victim, above all, of themselves. In that sense, as I said, in order not to pretend to be a psychotherapist, I can only say in principle that I believe there is no “perfect upbringing”. The lack of parental care can be as devastating as obsessive excess of it. Furthermore, poverty can cause identity crisis or feelings of inferiority, but growing up in uncontrolled opulence can also cause some personality deviations. Each of us suffers from a childhood ‘disease’ which we need to face and overcome, as soon as possible.

At the very beginning of the book, you quote Ivo Andrić. What is the difference between the role of “victim” and the role of “the guilty one”? Do you think that these two roles always go with each other when it comes to violence against women?

The easiest thing to do is to say that the victim is the one to be blamed. This is how we make up for our own helplessness and inability to help. Additionally, in this way it becomes easier to believe that “something like this cannot happen to me.” My goal was to show that “it can happen to everyone”. Not only Eva, and not only women, but anyone who has an excess of empathy, and a lack of self-esteem can become a victim. Such relations exist between a child and a parent, an employee and an employer, a man and a woman, because, unfortunately, pathologies are everywhere, as well as the lack of love and understanding.

As the relationship between Eva and Viktor gradually grow, the so-called red flags emerge. It seems that Eva did notice them, but she anyway decided not to react. Why is it so? Furthermore, perhaps an even more important question – what do you think needs to be changed and how we can influence girls and women to start reacting to the red flags?

The so-called “red flags” are those places where common sense leaves us, and the irrational, subconscious and dark enters the scene. The reasons why we don’t react to such things are suppressed deep in our subconscious, which no longer concern ourselves, but all the things that were “wrongly planted” deep in us. The only way to prevent this is to teach our children self-esteem, integrity and assertiveness, how to recognize and respect one’s own boundaries. If that has already happened, then the only possibility to help is to speak out. The victim is often silent because of the shame and condemnation of the society she or he expects, and agrees to be victimized because she or he thinks that this only happens to her/him. In this way, violence becomes a personal failure and shame. The most important thing, when you are in such a situation, is to know that you are not alone, and that what I tried to contribute to with this book – to be there for all those who are silent and show them that they are not alone.

The book summarizes at least two personal life experiences – yours and your friend’s. You also stated in one interview that you deal with problems by writing about them. How much is writing a healing method for you?

I think that writing can, but it doesn’t have to be a therapeutic experience. You already know that an idea or a thought sounds differently when it’s in your head than when it’s spoken out loud. Writing can be an ideal platform for those who are not comfortable to talk a lot, as I am, to have someone who they can talk with. In this way, all of a sudden, everything that bothers you becomes real, and you can comprehend it better. Problems in us sometimes seem unsolvable, endless, but on paper they still have the beginning and the end. This is so unburdening, and you move forward after that.

The book is dedicated to those who are silent. Nowadays, we are witnessing more and more women talking about their experiences of violence. Often those experiences have inspired music, movies, books, and other arts. However, it seems that your book was one of the first to do so in this region. Do you think that we are “lagging behind” the world when it comes to the problem of violence against women? Why is this book arriving so late compared to the world? What does it take for us to start speaking out loud?

Uh, it’s very difficult for me to answer this question because the way you formulated it suggests that the issue of violence against women is a trend and that one can miss or follow in a timely manner. This problem cannot be solved through art, but through the institutional response that, of course, is not functioning well in Serbia. The response must include the legal system that is also questionable, and education that is still at an unenviable level. I’m not sure that I’m advocating for having this issue mainstreamed in literature or some other field of art, nor I’m sure that I want to achieve that with this novel. This is why, to emphasize it once again, I’m not dealing with violence against women in this novel. I deal with pathological relationships, personality structures and psychology. And if you ask me if psychology is sufficiently represented in regional literature at the moment – I would say that the answer is no, because easy points are still being collected for war stories and there is this race for victims. It is time to write and talk about something else in this region.

The book tackles another important topic, and that is moving to Germany in search of a “better life”, which is the experience of many young (and even older) people from Serbia. What do you think, can this “better life” be achieved in Germany or some other country?

That’s right, that was an important aspect of the story for me, among other things. Escaping from hopelessness into some even greater hopelessness is rooted in the existential and economic circumstances of my characters and these are important aspects influencing their personality structure. The one who had money in Serbia, and left because he doesn’t like the way of life or aesthetics, will live decently somewhere else, and from there he will spit on Serbia, “Srbistan” or whatever he likes to say. But the one who leaves for existential reasons, who works on a construction site, or like my Eva, who cleans toilets, he or she will think with nostalgia for his country and will hardly wait to return. To summarize, I think that life today is cruel on any part of this planet, except for those who were lucky enough to be born rich. The invasion of technology influences faster and faster disappearances of spirituality. Our home village seems miserable compared to all those beautiful exotic destinations we see on Instagram, and people are being convinced every day to be dissatisfied with what they have, to ask for more, to spend more, and to suffer forever.

To conclude this conversation, in one of the interviews you stated that you wanted to send a message in a bottle with this book because that is exactly what has saved you many times. What messages in the ‘literature bottle’ helped you? Are there any authors from this region that you would like to emphasize?

It seems to me that I name the same books in every interview, and I have already bored myself. In order not to do it again, I would just say that I really found the best interlocutors in books. Philosophy, classics, some contemporary authors…Everything has already happened, and that is what comforts me, ours is just to live.

S.P.

Photo credit: kunst weekly